Photo credit: USA today
After being passed by Congress, Bush just signed into law a massive energy bill that will, among other things, spell the end of traditional light bulb. USA Today reports that the bill will phase out the venerable (but power-hungry) incandescent bulb over the next dozen years in favor more efficient fluorescent, halogen, and LED bulbs. Specifically, the new law holds that all light bulbs must be 25 to 35 percent more efficient by 2012 to 2014.
A LED-based light bulb
Incandescent bulbs are highly inefficient, and today many compact fluorescent bulbs have a light quality that is similar the warm, incandescent light most of us of familiar with. Each fluorescent bulb installed will chip about $5 off your annual electricity bill. U.S. News has a great FAQ on why the bulbs are being banned, and why fluorescent bulbs are more efficient overall. How about these stats: $40 billion in savings over the years spanning 2012 to 2030, 14 fewer coal-fired power plants, and 51 million fewer tons of carbon emissions annually.
Via: USA Today
Keith to some aspects you’re right but I also think that it should be OUR choice whether or not we wana buy regular light bulbs for our homes or the new flourecent bulbs. This almost feels like congress is making a choice for us and thats not right. Just cuz they like the idea doesn’t mean we will too. America is about freedom and by that we should be able to make our own choices and do as we feel, as long as no laws are being broken. now if it was up to me, I would address that both light bulbs should be in stock so that everybody can choose whatever best suites them. Some ppl like the flourecent bulbs and others like the regular ones. SOME of the flourcent ones I do like. One particular one that I do like are the ones that have that orange glow when u 1st turn them on. Those are kinda cool but thats besides the point. The point that Im trying to make is that we should be given a choice whether we wana buy the old skool regular lights or flourecent.
After reading your post about the onset of scintillating scotoma I did some research. I found many reports of this malady with causations ranging from the use or consumption of drugs or alcohol to exhaustion from overwork to staring too long at video screens. I did not see any mention of fluorescent lights as a cause, this is not to say that they are not causing your problem. It does however point to the fact that this condition has many, many causes. Perhaps you should do some research and see if your own habits may be causing your problem, habits that may seem quite innocuous but may never the less be the root of the problem. I am convinced that the wholesale adoption of fluorescent and LED lights will be of immense value to the country in reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Remember also that like every other technological advance that we have experienced these new lights will improve immeasurably over time, so that deficiencies that we now are aware of will be quickly fixed. We need to have a little patience.
Hello, Ever since I started using those kind of florescent light bulbs all of each my room in my apt in November 2008. I thought they were nice and kinda kewl with white as being more modern look and brightness. But then I started having scintillating scotoma and migraine headaches right after that. Until now I am having trouble seeing in places like U would see after thousands of camera photo flashes into yur eye. Just today, I had to remove all the florescent light bulbs and replace the normal ones. Had I known it would have caused troubles in my eyes I would never have brought them and I am pissed. Before I even had those light bulbs I never had any of eye problems in my life. Even my father says hes heard it is causing lots of people eye problems?? I believe we should have a chioce to buy regular bulbs or florescent bulbs. I would hope Govnt never ever rid of normal regular bulbs!!!!! Give us a choice and to choose which is safer. Its something we learn from it Thanks JS
Mike is right in some respects, the CFL bulbs are ugly and some of them do have a funny color spectrum. As I am sure you realize, these problems will be addressed over time. Look how almost every technological advance has improved almost beyond recognition as the products are refined. Remember the old ugly TVs, compare them with today’s sleek models, the same is true of cars, PCs, cameras etc.etc.etc. Remember when cordless power tools first came out they were expensive, underpowered, heavy and ugly and the batteries weren’t worth a damn. Not today’s models.
My big beef is with people who just slam the idea of change for the good of us all, because it will cause some disruption or inconvenience in their lives. There is NO RIGHT to be able to buy and use incandescent bulbs forever. Just as there is NO RIGHT to use leaded gasoline or lead paint, although I expect that there are still some people who bemoan this. They have some twisted belief that lead paint was better or lasted longer or was prettier so they demand their RIGHT to use it. Those of us who use some common sense and bother to do some research know that using lead in products such as gas or paint is incredibly stupid and irresponsible. The same is now true of the change to much more efficient fluorescent and eventually LED light sources. Yes there will be problems to start with but the long term benefits are undeniable.
People who always shout about their rights make me mad, these people fail to use the other R word namely RESPONSIBILITY. Without RESPONSIBILITY no one will have any rights. Responsibility must come first for responsibility is the guardian of our rights.
Mike, Unfortunately, Bush, in a spectacularly spineless moment, signed into law the bill passed by Congress that proclaims an end simultaneously to free choice and the existence of incandescent light bulbs. Since it was Congress that propelled this travesty, I suggest that you write to your Congressman. Good luck w/that considering the pandering that goes on in Congress .. especially under Obama’s People’s Republic. BTW, I’m glad I started my stockpile when I did .. the better bulbs are going to the stratosphere in price .. although they have not yet become as expensive as the ‘economical’ CFLs.
I agree with most of the comments on here. All I really have to say is that I think that as Americans, it should be OUR choice whether or not we wana light our homes with old fashioned light bulbs or the new ones that are coming out. I feel as if part of my freedom as been taken away.
Does anyone know where I can write to whoever’s in charge of this matter because I would really like to express my opinion. The ones who are against these new light bulbs, I think we should all write a letter to whoever is in charge, express our feelings towards it and MAYB they’l reconsider the idea, who knows.
If anyone knows where I can write to the person in charge, please let me know. Thanks!
I wana write a letter to the ppl who think that these new lightbulbs are a great idea. I agree with most of the comments here. They’re ugly and they hurt my eyes a bit. I feel as if my right is being taken away that now i have to buy these new ugly ass bulbs. I am gona do what DAISY is doing and stock up on alot of the old skool light bulbs.
Does anyone know the address to whom I can write to disgussing my issues. I think we should all keep writting letters complaining about the negativity of these new bulbs. Toxic poison, ugly lighting etc etc
Daisy, you have the gall of Dick Cheney when you call someone else a moron, I have read all your postings and I must say you are winner. As for your comment about the English and their teeth, once again you demonstrate a very slippery grasp on the real story (you are spending too much time being entertained by Rush Limbaugh). Your are correct that the English have not taken the affectation of bright shiny teeth that front for an empty brain case to heart. You see the British, thank god, have a National Health Care system. When I was 5 years old in 1947 ( so as not to tax your limited intellect too much I am now 67) I, like all children in the UK started to see a dentist that cost my parents NOTHING. I also received regular eye sight tests and hearing tests as well as visits to the doctor. All of this was covered by the National Health system that covered everyone, it did not stop if you lost your job, the phrase “pre-existing condition” did not exist. If you had to go to hospital the first question you were asked was “what is wrong” unlike our wonderful system here in the US where the question is “where is your insurance card or credit card or check book”.
The right wing zealots will try anything to scare you and prevent any change to the US system which is overburdened, vastly overpriced and leaves out in excess of 50 million people including millions of children. The lies and scaremongering have already started with ads on TV which distort the truth so much they must have been written by Bush devotees. The ads point out faults in the British and Canadian system, faults that exist in the US system by the truck load, they forget to mention that fact. If you think the health insurance companies here have your best interests at heart then you need to check yourself into the nearest mental health clinic ASAP. Oh! check your policy to see if you are covered first. In conclusion I still have 95% of my teeth and they are in good condition thanks to the British National Health system and very expensive US dental procedures.
Wake up and use your brain.
um, Daisy? “Europe” ≠ “England”. And look, I’m on the same side of this argument as you, but I really don’t see any reason to criticize an individual’s chosen career. Maybe bob loves what he does. Isn’t that important? All I’m saying is comments like that really aren’t going to help sway anybody who might be on the fence.
just my $.02 (that’s 0.000147 Euros or 0.000131 British pounds for you bob)
um bob, speaking of morons, exactly how long do you suppose you’re going to financially sustain yourself as a ‘tattooist’? The tattoo fad is fading almost as quickly as the unstable light from those overpriced, ugly and toxic CFLs. Related to moronic status, anyone who needs to refer to his workplace as differentiated from the ‘real world’ is obviously used to rejecting reality, hence your vulnerability as a dupe for the “Green Movement”. But hey, who needs reality when you can glom onto a fantasy movement? Furthermore, how long is it going to take the ultra slow English before they figure out that routinely brushing one’s teeth is a good thing? Then again, rotten teeth would appear to be the least of your problems what with “Mohammed” surpassing “John” as the most popular baby name in England. Talk about morons .. you’ve all been so busy being guilty that you plain forgot to have babies! Now that’s dumber than dirt, bob. Oh well, the Greenies will be glad .. hardly anyone will be using toilet paper anymore. That’ll teach those tree farmers a thing or two.
you americans are morons, i live in europe, im a tattooist, i work under led and cfl lights all day.. no headache and they are almost perfect representations of the light you would encounter anywhere else, fact i use one warm and one cold so that i can constantly see what my work looks like in the real world, and for the equivalent of about 150 watts im using no more than 25 and thats to power my whole work station!
You may not be aware of the fact that a new administration has already been elected by a majority of Americans who love freedom, Barack Obama is doing a great job trying to fix the ocean of shit that George Bush left behind. If you think Sarah and her brain dead right wing zealot supporters will win in 2012 I would like to sell you a bridge. If you think those right wing zealots are interested in freedom then you are as gullible as all the rest of the Republicans. They want to create a theocracy where god is the president and we all grovel on our stomachs at his alter. They will eliminate ALL taxes but you have to tithe 75% of your income to Pat Robertson, whats his name Osteen, Benny Hinn and all the other odious creeps who appear on religious TV. They will fix the health care system with mass prayer sessions where you beg god to cure your disease ( no one ever gets cured its just another scam). All police forces will be done away with and you will be able to buy military surplus bazookas, howitzers, mines and machine guns at discount prices, you will get government grants to put barbed wire around your house. Isn’t freedom wonderful. If you want a preview of all this go live in Somalia and see if you like it, e-mail me if you do.
I prefer having a president who has a brain, who listens, who is admired and who does not insult everyone with their moronic ignorance like George Bush and Sarah and all the other right wing brain dead religious republican zealots. In any case I will make a prediction that Barack Obama will be re-elected easily and will be able to appoint some Supreme Court Justices who will have the best interests of the people at heart. We do not need any more like Thomas or that pompous conceited Scalia who has read all the books but he is so dumb he couldn’t make the right decision if his life depended on it. He just thinks that making decisions that affect peoples lives is just a fun game.
Enjoy your freedom in somalia.
Ken, You said it! Every word correct – especially your summation: “Once again, government creates more problems with its solutions than it solves.” Reagan brilliantly said: “The scariest words in the English language are, “Hi, I’m the American government and I’m here to help”.
The light bulb manufacturers, in collusion w/Bush’s Big Government, have produced a major scam by dumping cheapo to manufacture (but expensive to buy), ugly in every way imaginable, crappy quality , made in China, toxic light bulbs courtesy of the guilty to the point of madness Greenies. I’m not guilty and I recognize snake oil when I see it; I’m stockpiling.
Note to Greenies: Go ahead and flagellate yourselves, but do not expect sensible people to participate. 2012 will soon be here — and so will a new administration — elected by the majority of American citizens who still love freedom.
you can find good CFL lamps at http://www.litetronics.com
So to stave off junk science (“man made global warming”), we are forcing people to buy bulbs filled with mercury, that will poison our landfills and ground water, that after a few weeks use get dimmer and dimmer and take longer to warm up, that don’t fit most light fixtures (my house is filled with wall sconces, it was built in 1925, and I’m not putting in those ugly ballast-based candelabra bulbs), and that NEVER last as long as advertised. Half of the CFLs I’ve used have burned out in less than a year, not the “eight years” advertised.
Once again, government creates more problems with its solutions than it solves.
Rich,
You said “What is the impact of one bulb? Small unless you break it.”
And that is one of the big probles with CFLs. If you break a CFLs you have to get a Hazardous Clean-Up Team to clean up the mess. That is going to cost thousands of dollars and you could get Mercury posisoning. CFLs sound like great light bulbs to have in your house. Well we will not have to worry that Hazardous Clean-Up teams will loses business, I might even switch my job to working for a Hazardous Clean-Up Company.
–Where do I find a CFL bulb to replace my 3-way bulbs? Is there such an animal?
They do make these beasts, they are a bit larger than regular bulbs and may not fit in every lamp.
I got one from Home Depot for $10. The claimed a 9 year life but the kids destroyed the lamp and the bulb after less than a year. Luckily the CFL was not broken. I bought a bright CFL for the living room as I doubt I’ll need the lower settings anyway.
Initially it took a while to warm up, I suspect the mercury needed to evaporate, and after that it did flicker noticeably when warming up. These CFLs don’t work as well as incandescent bulbs or normal CFLs in my experience.
Where do I find a CFL bulb to replace my 3-way bulbs? Is there such an animal?
–If CFLs will reduce our dependance on foreign then they are good for us, so stop whining and get over it.
I assume you mean foreign oil here. And CFL’s won’t do anything at all to our demand for oil. At best they will reduce our demand for electricity, but they will not offset the gains in demand due to massive legal and illegal immigration.
And you’ll just never guess where all the CFL’s sold in the US and made. They are another foreign-made good, so at best you are trading on foreign dependency for another. I say at best because CFL’s in practice have nothing to do with our oil consumption, regardless of the source of the oil.
And these being the case your argument fails, they are not good for us in the sense you claim. They are another dependency and they are bad for us as they cause more money to hemorrhage out of the local economies.
FYI, different anonymous.
Daisy, stockpile away your FREE to horde as many incandescents as you want. But your assertion that banning the sale of incandescents is “bashing freedom” is absurd and you know it. I am sure that there are many local ordinances where you live that could be seen as “bashing freedom” such as:
Requiring a fence around a swimming pool to prevent children from falling in.
Banning the parking of commercial vehicles on your property.
Requiring smoke detectors throughout your house.
Banning the burning of refuse on your property.
Banning the manufacture and use of paint containing lead.
and the list goes on and on.
Most reasonable do not see these regulations as “bashing freedom” but as reasonable and necessary precaution that benefir us all.
I have said it before and I will say it again, if you want to be free of government regulation and all those pesky no good useless busybodies who enforce these regulations then go live in Somalia. In Somalia you are “free” to do as you please, you can probably buy incandescents and even leaded paint to your hearts content.
So shut up and stop continuously moaning and complaining.
Tallis, I am truly sorry about your migraines my father suffered with them as well and I know how painful and truly debilitating they are. However I am confused by your statement that flourescent flicker causes a problem, are you refering to the the flicker when a light goes on and off as the old flourescents used to do when they started up. Or are you refering to the 60 hertz flicker caused by the AC power. Ordinary incandescents also flicker at 60 Hertz and in my experience the flourescent flicker is less noticeable than indandescent flicker. As to brightness there are ways to shade or filter the light. I am seeing more and more flourescent and LED lights appear on the market. I am sure we will see an improvement in quality and function as time goes by, the savings in energy consumption will be substantial and this will benefit us all.
I am sure that when gas light replaced candles and electricity replaced gas there were many people who felt that we were going the wrong way but I am dead certain no one would now want to go back to candles or gas.
Tallis,
It’s not at all certain that these lights are environmentally sound and it very well could be a serious scam. Light bulb manufacturers have, for many years (in fact, since the 60’s), been trying to pawn off these low grade lights on the public – with little to no success because they produce ugly, harmful light. Now, aided and abetted by gulit riddled ‘environmentalists’, GE, Sylvania etc. are jumping for joy at having the govt. do what they’ve failed to do: Sell us cheap to manf. expensively priced light bulbs that shed horrific quality light .. now mandated by LAW! Made in China quality, over packaged, highly expensive, sickening – crap – it’s an outrageous bashing of freedom. I’m stockpiling.
This sounds like a great idea for the enviroment and the future I am all for it from my enviromental perspective!!! That said…
SHIT! ARE YOU SERIOUS!? I am screwed. I am a Migraine sufferer. I get from 7 to 20 Migraines a month. One my the main triggers for my Migraines are… you guessed it… these lovely fluorescent lights. They flicker, they are bright, they hurt. I can’t have them in my house, especaily during a Migraine Attack. I have even had them traded out in my office so I can make it through the work day. I avoid these lights as if they were a sickness.
Might I ask how we will all be using CFs in most design applications? I work in theater and currently all of our lighting is done with Incandescent lamps, usually around 500-1000 watts each. LEDs are slowly coming into prominence, but the question remains, for high intensity, dimmable light, incandescents are the only way to go. Will we in the theatre (and also most other installations that require dimming) have to ditch all our lighting due to this silly energy act?
Oh! I almost forgot, you have managed to prove that you are a true conservative. “I will also continue to use my stockpiled incandescent bulbs for many long years to come”.
Intransigence, bone headed determination, total refusal to see the light in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A true conservative, George Bush would be proud.
Congrats.
It’s always the same when confronted by difficult questions the answers to which reveal your lack of intellect let alone lack of foresight, reasoning or intelligence. You just follow the predictable route followed by all brain dead conservatives, you just change the subject.
Once again you reveal your yahoo mentality, “lets call him a leftist”, you haven’t the vaguest idea what you are talking about do you. You probably heard some other conservative use the word, it sounded good so you decided to use it.
You haven’t answered one single question that I have asked have you. Your are scared to death when confronted by concepts that you clearly have never contemplated. So you revert to blather “I’m a conservative” “I believe in freedom”, “government is useless”, “nobody tells me what to do I’m an American”, “all problems are the fault of commies, socialists and gays” etc. etc. etc.
You have never had an original thought in your life have you. Oh! I am so impressed that you are rich, I do hope that your investment councilors haven’t put your money into one of Bernie Maddof’s funds. A lot of formerly smart rich people did trust him and they are no longer rich or smart. I am also rich and I know where my money is.
Anyway, just go back and try to answer my questions and then you will see just how foolish you are. On reflection though I think you’re a lost cause
Keith G.,
You reveal yourself as an ill-bred irrationalist when you decry name calling while simultaneously calling Anonymous “stale piss” and then calling me names you deem political slurs all while indulging in a Leftist orgy of fantastical dire predictions concerning my personal fate. Hate to burst your envy bubble, but I’m rich and I’m staying that way. I will also continue to use my stockpiled incandescent bulbs for many long years to come.
It’s one thing to be determinedly ignorant, it’s quite another to be ill bred. Although, for truth’s sake, it must be admitted there is confluence between those conditions – producing annoying, albeit predictable and consistent results: Envy riddled Leftists.
You sir, are both ignorant and ill bred. Do not expect to engage in any further discourse with me.
Dear Anonymous, As we do not have any stale piss around our house it is difficult to make a direct comparison between and CFLs. However could it be that you are mistaken about the stale piss could it be that you were staring at a mirror when you made the comparison.
Now to Daisy’s latest remarks. I did not call you a Libertarian I said that your own remarks made you look like a Libertarian, by saying that you are a conservative you merely reinforce this view.
I can never understand anyone who says “I am a conservative” or “I am a liberal”. They are of course deluding themselves, no one (except George Bush) can spend their entire lives believing absolutely in the credo of conservatism or liberalism. You would be far more correct saying “I am conservative in my views on Defence, law and order, welfare etc but I do not hold to the conservative views on Euthenasia, Third World Aid, Birth Control etc”. The same would be true for liberals also. I myself tend toward conservative views on Defence, Law and Order, Immigration etc but I hold liberal views on Health Care, Welfare, Gay marriage etc. So am I a conservative or a liberal, by the way in spite of my views on Gay Marriage I am not gay. Nor am I a socialist or a National Socialist, what a childish remark you made to say “You confuse reasonable governmental regulations w/National Socialism”. What a pompous arrogant and ignorant remark, it is YOU who confuses ” reasonable governmental regulations w/National Socialism”. It is clear that you as with the majority of people have NO IDEA what you talking about when you try to demean some one by throwing the labels “Nationa Socialism” and “Socialism” and “Comminism” around.
Capitalism is in fact a good system when it is run by people of integrity and honesty. But when the system is run by people with unfettered greed who are concerned only with their own welfare and with utter contempt for the good of others then we have the situation that we find ouselves in now. The thieves have stolen the goods and our money and their alright Jack. The Madoffs of this world have run riot. WHY? because the people who were supposed to be watching were asleep at the whell. I imagine that you were part of “we don’t need government interference or rules or regulation, let the market regulate itself” crowd. Well the market sure as hell has taken care of itself leaving millions of victims in its wake. You can rest assured that during the conservative reign government interference was reduced to almost nothing. This will be very comforting to you as the baliffs throw out all your belongings from your fore-closed house and the repo man tows away your repossessed car and you join the line for food stamps. Sorry you will probably not want food stamps, just another of those liberal socialist give aways that you object to. Well see if Citi Bank or Morgan Stanley or GE or Microsoft will give you any food or pay for your health care or your shelter. I think not.
If CFLs will reduce our dependance on foreign then they are good for us, so stop whining and get over it.
CFLs are as ugly as stale piss and put out a light that’s about as ugly. They cost too much. They’re dangerous if they break and they don’t last nearly as long as advertised. I’ve only used them in fixtures where you can’t see the bulb and on an outside light – in neither application have they lasted appreciably longer than incandescent bulbs.
And I prefer not to have ugly, inefficient, costly light bulbs imposed on me in the name of the State Religion of Environmentalism.
The religious dogma of extreme environmentalism is not meant to reasonably protect the environment we share; the dogma is intended to destroy normal, healthy capitalistic ventures in favor of governmental regulations on every single aspect of our lives.
Where you, not unlike the SS, prefer Big Government regulating everything single thing you do (no, actually, make that everything I do) for “my own good”, I prefer free market choice. If someone invents a light bulb (or anything else) that is truly superior to what’s sold in the marketplace, more power to them. The market will dictate what gets bought and sold. If more people want to buy cost ineffective ugly bulbs that cast a harsh ugly light, fine. And if you want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge, that’s also fine with me. What’s not fine is eliminating my choice to buy a perfectly safe and fine – in fact, in all ways – superior product.
Although there are reasonable concerns about the harmful effects of CFL’s on people w/certain neurological disorders, not to mention the uglification of public space (which I now have to endure), I would still not want to stop the free market from operating freely. What I do object to, and object to vehemently, is my choice having been annihilated by a bunch of esthetically incompetent and seriously ill informed do gooders. These same do gooders have accomplished what light bulb manufacturers have attempted to dump on the public since the early 60’s (and that the public heretofore has wisely refused) : cheaply manufactured, high cost ugly fluorescent lighting. Worse, you’ve made this compulsory and eliminated choice. The winner? General Electric and Sylvania. The losers? The now incrementally nationalized GE, Sylvania and the American consumer.
If the damned CFL is so almighty wonderful, then let the public decide. If they were so terrific, the demand would go up, prices for the CFLs would go down and the price of the incandescent would rise. I’d be glad to pay the higher price for the less desirable bulb that I want but will not be able to buy. What I’m not glad to do is have my freedom interfered w/ by a bunch of indoctrinated dummies who would destroy freedom all for the sake of their latest guilt riddled status symbol.
You confuse reasonable governmental regulations w/National Socialism, which is a catastrophic error. The problem w/Capitalism is the occasional Capitalist. The problem w/Socialism is Socialism; it’s only guarantee is misery. Stick w/your plan for governmental interference in all manner of things that are none of the government’s business, and you will succeed in making the whole world into Somalia. When you and yours do that, you will have fulfilled the vision of the extreme environmental movement. BTW, I’m not a Libertarian; I’m a Conservative.
Daisy, thanks for the response. Unfortunately your reasoning is so far out of the realm of normalcy that you make yourself look like a Libertarian.
It seems that you would regard a law such as, we should all drive on the right as an assault on your liberty. If I lived next to you and I wanted to start a business that was very noisy and produced lots of pollution I should be able to. I should not have to abide by the zoning laws created by the Fascist/Socialist local government. I should be able to run a bordello or sell drugs right next to a church or a school. Heaven forbid that my butchers shop or restaurant should be subject to inspection by this same local or state authority looking for tainted food products or unhygienic practices. Oh, I have just invented a drug which will cure your constipation, why should the FDA stick their nose in just because they think this drug will kill people.
You seem to be in favor of Anarchy not Freedom, if you want complete freedom to do as you please then I suggest you go and live in Somalia. Civilization and modern society HAS to have reasonable and sensible laws, what constitutes “reasonable” good question. That is what democracy is all about, remember what Winston Churchill said “democracy is absolutely the worst form of government, except for all the others”. When you jump to an extreme such as citing the Nazi SS and their view of “reasonable” you lose all credibility and show yourself up as some one who is SO unreasonable that normal intelligent discourse is impossible.
I suppose that you regard the imposition of anti-pollution rules on Cars as a violation of your freedom, you probably want to continue using leaded gas. The evidence that lead can cause severe developmental problems in young children is overwhelming but because it violates your view of what constitutes freedom you would fight to remove those SENSIBLE laws. The phasing out of incandescent bulbs, while not a danger to your health, is sensible as it can lead to more efficient and cheaper forms of illumination. The problem with your views are this, anyone not agreeing with you would be seen as another member of this socialist/fascist ruling class seeking to oppress you. You would then more than likely take up arms against me. I can assure you that I would also take up arms and fight and defeat you. Where does that get us?
The democracies we now live under in the western world are not perfect, far from it, but they are NOT NAZI GERMANY, THE SOVIET UNION, RED CHINA or FASCIST ITALY or SOMALIA and never will be. Compare the freedoms we enjoy, even with the annoyances of silly and inconvenient laws, with Somalia.
You cannot be against all environmental laws surely, you must enjoy clean air, clean water, removal of hazardous waste etc. etc.
Which of these laws don’t you like? in Somalia you are free to drink contaminated water, walk down streets stinking with human waste, eat food and use drugs that have never been interfered with by government inspectors.
Personally I prefer not to.
Keith, do keep in mind that the Fascists were Socialists. Fascism was the ultimate leftist movement with every single iota of responsibility lifted out of the domain of the individual and placed into the governmental domain. Keep in mind too, that all the evils perpetrated by the Fascists were for ‘the good of the people’.
You claim, “Unfortunately many people pay lip service to their RESPONSIBILITIES thus forcing those of us who take them seriously to create RULES AND LAWS. So if you are one of the former type then you are the root cause of the LAWS you so much despise.”
Uh huh. I’m quite sure the SS justified all kinds of violations against human freedom and dignity w/the same distorted thinking. You go ahead and follow the orders dictated by the state religion of environmentalism. But at no time expect me to follow those same orders; I prefer freedom. And I will fight with my dying breath to protect freedom.
Wow, some people do get upset, Jane Doe believes that the “bleep” fascist state is forcing her to give up her holy incandescent bulbs, which are obviously gifts from god.
Then there is Daisy who believes that a fully Socialist governing force is behind these vicious policies. I am very worried that I did not know about any of this.
I have good news for Jane Doe and Daisy, you can defeat these evil powers by simply going back to using candles or a naked gas flame just like we used for milenia until Joseph Swann invented the incandescent electric light bulb. No it wasn’t Edison it was Swann, Edison bought the patent from Swann then manipulated everyone into thinking he invented it. You’ve got to watch those crafty capitalists.
Anyway Jane and Daisy, do you like my suggestion? and when your house catches fire (candles and gas flames tend to be rather dangerous that’s why the fascist/socialist law makers pester you with lots of warnings) you can have the satisfaction of telling those fascist/socialist quasi governmental fireman busybodies to get off your property so that you can extinguish the fire yourself with a bucket of water.
If they won’t go you can use your gun to shoot them, thank heavens for the 2nd amendment and the NRA.
I will leave you with this thought. People who constantly moan about there RIGHTS being violated ignore the fact that RIGHTS only work when we recognize that we have RESPONSIBILITIES. Without RESPONSIBILITIES we have NO RIGHTS. Unfortunately many people pay lip service to their RESPONSIBILITIES thus forcing those of us who take them seriously to create RULES AND LAWS. So if you are one of the former type then you are the root cause of the LAWS you so much despise.
Woolex, you observed: “Ultimately to have a significant impact on energy consumption government would have to stop the very engine that drives the economy, consumption of goods. ”
That’s precisely the agenda of those using the ‘environmental movement’ as a cover for their real goal: shut down free trade and have a fully Socialist governing force interfering in every aspect of our lives. So what if we have to wait in lines for scarce resources – like toilet paper? Toilet paper and water wasting toilets are “bad” for “the environment” and therefore we need to get rid of them.
Think I’m kidding? NYC Mayor Bloomberg has gone after cigarette smokers, transfat users (immediate $1000 fine if so much of a stick of margarine is discovered by highly tax paid inspectors/regulators in any commercial food prep. ‘environment’ in NYC) and now he’s going after salt. That’s right. Citizens of the formerly free USA will now have Saint Bloomberg dictating their salt usage. For their own good. And fines will be imposed on food producers for not toeing the salt line. This does not only affect NYC – Bloomberg’s successful tax and spend schemes (disguised under the ‘environmental health’ umbrella) are copied far and wide across the USA.
One wonders exactly what it will take for the supremely sanctimonious to begin to choke on all their damned warm fuzziness? Maybe sitting in a harshly green glaring room eating their saltless, fat free but green dinner of roots and then taking a postprandial hike in the cold but clean rain to the toilet paperless green bamboo outhouse located ‘in the environment’ a few times too many will convince them to take up smoking lots of tobacco.
One can only hope that perhaps then, while otherwise preoccupied, they’ll get the hell off the rest of our backs.
Replacing incandescent with CFL’s for the sake of the environment is outrageous. Yet another political attempt to save face in awake of environmental degradation.
Generating light artificially impacts the environment regardless of what light bulb is used. CFL’s have pros and cons just like an incandescent. People should be able to chose what light best suit’s the application. To determine this consumers need to know where their power is coming from [coal, nuclear, hydro etc] the climate they live, and how and where the bulb is being manufactured.
I would love to find more information on exactly how much energy is used to manufacture a CFL, INCLUDING the extraction and transportation of the various mineral recourses that comprise a CFL. Unfortunately to date all I can find is political opinions [worthless] and scientific evaluations that only cover half the variables.
Above all banning incandescent lights is simply a piss weak attempt to “save the planet”. Domestic lighting in particular uses a very small percentage of the gross power generated [particularly on a global basis] .
The majority of energy goes towards fueling economies with useful and useless shit for people to consume and of course transportation.
Ultimately to have a significant impact on energy consumption government would have to stop the very engine that drives the economy, consumption of goods. I suppose it will make some misguided people feel warm and fuzzy when they are screwing CFL’s into their light sockets, but the reality is it wont solve a thing.
So what is the government providing for our refrigerators, ovens, and other places where these flourescents will not work?
TO ALAN: I’m old. My eyes are not so good anymore. I cannot see well using these dim flourscent bulbs. Yes, that makes me mad and I am complaining. Why wouldn’t I? You will get old someday, too, Alan, and won’t be able to see like you do now. Hope you remember me when that happens! And it will!
//EVEN THOUGH CFLs contain a tiny amount of mercury (just like all the fluorescent tubes in office buildings and stores everywhere also do), CFLs use SO little energy that they reduce the mercury emissions from power plants by 2/3rds compared with INCANDESCENT//
Marty, for California’s electricity , only 2% comes from coal unless PG&E is lying to me. Explain the emissions reductions here.
//THAT IS WHY ENERGY STAR AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY SUPPORT USING THEM!!//
California reports that 6 million CFLs have been sold (in radio and TV commercials), but there is no word of reduced power requirements. In fact, we’ve had rolling blackouts. I don’t see any real evidence that CFLs reduce power generation needs.
CFLs obviously don’t meet everyone’s needs for many reasons, from causing migraines to sensitivity to UV (which is what causes the phosphors to glow). They can’t be used in ovens or microwave ovens, they probably won’t work in many refrigerators or freezers, or outside in an Ohio winter. There are many places where that will not work, or should not be used. They should not be used in unventilated fixtures for example, which describes virtually all existing fixtures. Using one in an unventilated fixture can result in a fire. Read the warnings that come with CFLs.
One size does not fit all. Fluorescents have their advantages and disadvantages. No evangelism on you part is gonna effect the reality of this.
FYI, for mercury calculations (rather than assertions) see above.
General public is still mis-informed.
EVEN THOUGH CFLs contain a tiny amount of mercury (just like all the fluorescent tubes in office buildings and stores everywhere also do), CFLs use SO little energy that they reduce the mercury emissions from power plants by 2/3rds compared with INCANDESCENT bulbs, because CFLs don’t require the power plants to generate as much power. CFLs use 75-80% less energy than regular bulbs and they last so much longer, that they win on the energy front AND the mercury front even after considering the tiny amount of mercury needed to run them . THAT IS WHY ENERGY STAR AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY SUPPORT USING THEM!! There is no ignorance in their recommendation, but they realize people will not easily understand that you need to use a little mercury to prevent a lot.
I am extremely alarmed about this. I’ve been treated for mercury poisoning and have always avoided fluorescent bulbs in my home. It’s one thing for any of us to stockpile incandescent bulbs, but isn’t there something else we can be doing? Shouldn’t we be contacting environmental groups, senators and congressmen? I hope some of the articulate people who posted their comments here will also take some sort of broader action.
I like how Alan pointed out you can save $30/month on your electricity bill, I think that is a little high considering my average electricity bill is only $25/mo. (I typically only use 45-55kWh). And most of the that bill is the delivery charge ($15.00). So I doubt everyone is going to see the kind of savings he’s boasting.
Second, you shrug off the heat like it’s not a big deal. But it is a big deal! Especially in the northern USA where we have cold-dark winters.
When I get home from work and turn up my heater and my lights on… guess what, if I have 3x100Watt bulbs going, my 1000Watt heater kicks on 30% less of the time. Why? Because my 100Watt bulbs are supplying heat to the room. If I had 3x25Watt CFLs pumping out the equivalent lumens, guess, what my heater would be supplying 100% of the heat energy. So lets do some fast math:
Incandecent:
3x100Watt + 0.7*1000Watt = 1000Watts
Compact Flourecent:
3x25Watts + 1.0*1000Watts = 1075Watts
I dont exactly see the benefit of CFLs (at least not in the winter time). Nore do I recommend using light-bulbs as the only heat-source. What I am saying, is that their effects should not be neglected.
Also, in the office – yesterday – I walked down the hallway and saw everyone’s office with their lights on (granted they were CFLs). But it was also a bright and sunny day. I was the only person in the entire hallway who had his lights off. Does this beg the question “If things become more efficient, will we abuse it more?” Much like the argument people have with hybrid cars… “If you get better MPG, will you drive more?” And this obviously leads to the question of “Are we saving anything?” My guess is no. Could it be possible that we need to increase the cost of things so people learn “I shouldnt leave my lights on, because it’s costing me money, and costing ‘us’ the environment” if people associate CFLs with being “Good” for the environment, I’d be willing to guess people will leave things on be less dilligent in remembering to turn things off because they are using less energy…
Plus, the government recommends you replace any lightbulb with a CFL if the lightbulb is to be on for more than 15 minutes. Why 15mins? Like I mentioned before – Activation energy! The spike to “excite” the mercury vapor inside the phosphor tube actually draws a large quantity of ‘juice’. So if you put them in your closet, bathroom, or other places where you’re turning lights on/off regularly… you arent saving anything. And in some cases you may be using MORE than your standard incandecent.
As for the real savings, why not use the sunlight? During the day I never turn on any lights (CFL or incandecent) It’s foolish, wasteful and unnecessary. And if that is your line of tought, when the sun goes down, so does the temperature. So why not turn on those heat-emitting incandecents?
But like I said, if you live in a warm place… sure go ahead throw in some CFL’s you’ll save not only on your lighting-electricity, but you’ll be able to cut back on your Air-Conditioning bill as well. Double-whammy, knock yourselves out. But for my life in the blistering cold, I’ll hang on to my lightbults for as long as I can.
As for freedom of choice, I’m definitely against the government making decissions for me. I know I am educated enough to understand what is good and what is bad. If I wanted other people to make decissions for me, I should have been born a robot.
I dont know where I am going with this post. Hopefully everyone made it through okay.
I would rather shoot myself than fill my home with fluorescent lighting. I work in a fluorescent-filled work environment all day and can’t wait to get home to the comfortable, warm, inviting lights of my little lamps in my little apartment. Fluoroescent lights give me headaches! Bad ones! I am stock piling incandescents as of this year… let’s see, I’m 26 now, so on an average of replacing about four to five light bulbs per year, if I live to be 80, then that means I have to stockup about 270 bulbs, at roughly 3.00 to 4.00 apiece… about a thousand dollars? That’s a little much for me to spend on bulbs at this low-earning age. However, that price is probably a much better deal than what I’d have to spend on Excedrin Migraine for the rest of my life due to filling my house with a lovely fluorescent glow. I don’t care how much technology has ‘warmed up’ fluorescent lights for the home… I can still tell the difference. I’m an artist. I will ALWAYS be able to tell the difference. Sure, these energy saving bulbs might be great for attic-cellar-driveway areas… but for a reading lamp next to couch, or next to the BED?? REALLY ROMANTIC. NOTHIN’ SAYS LOVIN’ LIKE SOME SOFT FLUORESCENT MOOD LIGHTING. WHAT A GOOD IDEA. That’ll really make my butt look great. By the way…The government is telling me what bulbs I can use in my own home?? A bit invasive, don’t you think? Wasn’t the whole point of breaking off and starting our own country just a few centuries ago to stop the government from doing this exact type of thing? Next they’ll be telling us what kind of socks to wear and what time to get up in the morning, and what’s illegal to have for breakfast.
Ever notice it’s the “little people” that the government “helps”? Thank God my house sits the way it does. I won’t need the lights except at night on my way to the bathroom.
Ronald Reagan famously declared that the scariest sentence in the English language is, “Hi, I’m the Federal government and I’m here to help.”
I agree with Reagan’s declaration.
I am so sick of my stupid government making One Size Fits All decisions, I could just spit. Flourescent bulbs trigger migraines for me. Am I supposed to live in the freaking dark? What of epileptics who are triggered by the flickering? Why are they witholding that flourescent bulbs can cause liver, brain and kidney damage if broken? They contain mercury. You have to evacuate the whole da*ned room when they break, they are that dangerous. Are these people crazy? Every time my government comes up with a “solution” they create more problems and expense for people. How are poor folks going to buy these outrageously expensive light bulbs? You need a bunch of them to actually light a room as well as incandescents do.
Should I toss out my chandelier that has been in my family for a hundred years? How am I going to replace those bulbs? What about dimmer switches? Flourescents don’t work with them.
Another decision from “leaders” who don’t think anything out first.
I have an 8 year old daughter with a rare life threatening autoimmune disease who cannot be under UV rays. Flourescent bulbs emmit UV rays (albiet in small amounts) and cause skin changes to occur in my daughter. Because of the isidious nature of my daughter’s disease, we do not fully know the extent of the damage to my daughter from flourescent lighting. We too are stockpiling bulbs but it is doubtful that we’ll be able to collect enough for her lifetime.
And we too are concerned about the mercury inside these bulbs — especially since we are already dealing with an autoimmune issue.
I wrote my congressman today to find out if there are any provisions for those persons with medical conditions — such as my daughter’s and possibly those with Lupus and some cancer patients.
Perhaps if you object to the replacement of the incandescent bulbs with flourescent bulbs, you might consider doing the same.
Has anyone else ever heard of a similar situation as ours — meaning a medical condition in which flourescent lights might be harmful to a person’s health?
//Maybe the government wouldn’t be saying anything about your light bulbs if those of you who love your incandescents so much would just turn off the lights when you leave a room.//
Ian,
I fail to see your reasoning that those who prefer to use incandescent bulbs don’t turn off the lights when they leave the room. That’s like saying if you use CFL’s, you don’t have to. My windows face east/west, so I do not use any lights during the day. I’ll use my incandescents and turn off the lights when I leave the room if you’ll leave your CFLs burning 24/7 – at the end of the month, we’ll see who has the lower elec. bill.
//And if it breaks don’t freak out, the mercury content is like nothing, just use a dustpan, then a wet rag, and you’re good, and how often do you break light bulbs?
Oh really? Is that why the EPA has a page long instruction sheet for clean up of broken CFLs?
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#fluorescent
And here’s an excerpt from the actual study conducted on the CFLs (link after):
“Mercury concentration in the study room air often exceeds the Maine Ambient Air
Guideline (MAAG) of 300 nanograms per cubic meter (ng/m3) for some period of
time, with short excursions over 25,000 ng/m3, sometimes over 50,000 ng/m3, and
possibly over 100,000 ng/m3 from the breakage of a single compact fluorescent
lamp. ”
http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflreport.htm
33,200% OVER the guideline limit from ONE bulb?!!?!? No, that’s not a typo.
And how often do I break light bulbs? With the possibility of Mecury at the levels indicated by the study, I think just 1 would be more than I would be willing to be exposed to.
So please Jason, continue using CFLs and next time you break one, do us all a favor and breath deeply.
//The bulbs truly do last 10 X’s longer
How long to incandescent bulbs actually last?
My MEASUREMENTS for CLF life show an average life of about 1.5 years, far less than the advertised 5-10 year lifespan.
If you don’t have numbers for incandescents and flourescents, seems to me it’s hard to make a comparison.
WRT the issue of mercury and the claim that more mercury is emitted by burning the coal to power an incandescent during it’s life than is in a CFL, I just read in an insert in my PG&E billing that only 2% of California’s power comes from coal, which, in CA at least should be the final nail in the coffin in which that claim is buried.
I don’t think CFL can be considered expensive, they save you money. They cost $1.00 and they save around $40 over their 3-5 year lifetime, at least the one’s I use. I’ve had the same $1.00 bulb outside in all Chicago’s seasons for 2 years running from 8PM to 5AM approximately, every day. If you are only getting 1 year out of the bulbs, I suspect there may be something wrong with the electric in your house, the bulbs are defective, or they are left on 24 hours / day.
The bulbs truly do last 10 X’s longer, which means the energy savings over the bulbs lifetime reduces mercury output from coal power plants by greater than the amount of mercury contained in 1 bulb and the bulb can be recycled. And if it breaks don’t freak out, the mercury content is like nothing, just use a dustpan, then a wet rag, and you’re good, and how often do you break light bulbs?
What about those of us who use antique fixtures? A gas-lamp converted to electric w/original carbon (not Tungsten) filament bulbs looks absolutely stunning. Throw a CFL of any type in there and it’s just not the same. That is, if any CFL would actually fit in there (they don’t).
Similarly, I use PAR36 halogen/xenon gas bulbs heavily throughout the house. Watt-per-watt, they compare very favorably with CFLs in terms of light output, but have a far more pleasing light to them. A use a 1/4 Minusgreen colour filter on them and the results are drop-dead gorgeous.
I also use LED & CFL lighting in my home as well. My electric bills run 1/4 to 1/6th of what my neighbors do, so why should I be forced to throw out an entire lighting fixture? More landfill material — that’s real environmentally friendly there.